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A Facebook dump about Trayvon Martin and the authoritarian mindset

2012/03/27

I intend to write about Trayvon Martin in a couple days, but here’s what’s been going around the honkisphere about him. If you aren’t familiar with the case somehow, read this. This will give you more background on the Eric Shaw case I referenced. Democratus is me, if you’re confused. Full dump below the fold:

Seth: Everyone makes such a huge deal about the trayvon incident in florida. I am baffled by a few things. Why that incident? Murders happen everyday why is he any more special than another victim? What if the races were reversed in the situation…….would people still be outraged? Does the zimmerman guy really look white to anyone or is it needed to fuel fires? I am not saying what happened isn’t tragic but merely giving people food for thought. Let all the facts come out before making a snap judgement as to innocence or guilt.

Democratus Reno: This one is special because of police involvement. Murders happen all the time, but it’s rare that the police know who did it and can’t or won’t arrest anyone or try to prosecute.

Brian: They know who fired the weapon. That is it. You have none of the real facts and you have decided he should be arrested. You just made Seth’s point.

Democratus Reno: We actually know considerably more than that. We know Martin was unarmed. We know the police didn’t question the person Martin was talking to on the phone at the time. We know that police didn’t check to see if Zimmerman was drunk or check his weapon.

My point is that regardless of any racial factors, I don’t want to live somewhere where you can shoot someone and say it was self-defense and just have everyone take your word for it. This is essentially a license to shoot anyone so long as you tell the cops he was coming right for you. Whether Zimmerman was justified or not, he shouldn’t have been assumed to justified. This is the sort of thing you conclude after a thorough investigation, not on the spot if someone’s story seems plausible.

Brian: Right…..so why do you need to have him arrested without the thorough investigation, why do want them to prosecute without a thorough investigation?

Democratus Reno: Normally, when someone is a suspect in a crime, they are arrested in order to do the investigation. They take the suspect downtown in order to gather evidence. Do you normally object when people are arrested on suspicion of a crime before there’s an investigation when they are found at the scene? If the prosecutor thinks there’s good evidence of a crime after the investigation, it goes to a grand jury. If they think there’s sufficient evidence to prosecute, it goes to trial. The police basically declared Zimmerman innocent without checking anything. I would have been okay with not arresting him had they at least done a sobriety test and taken his gun in for testing. (Did Trayvon touch it, how many times was it fired, etc?) Instead, they just took his word for everything. The police have an obligation to assume there will be a prosecution. The DA or grand jury decides if there isn’t going to be one.

The case is also important because it’s a good illustration of what prosecutors and cops keep telling us about stand-your-ground laws: They make it so basically it’s legal to kill your opponent in any physical altercation, or at least, make it very difficult to prosecute a situation where there’s a fight a one person winds up dead. The police likely just preemptively gave up because of this.

Brian: I am a former LEO……..I know how the judicial process works.

Seth: classic

Democratus: And you find nothing wrong with uniforms deciding that a potential murder was legally justified with only the most perfunctory investigation and without consulting the DA?

Brian: I am not going to debate this…..no point. you have your opinion and I have mine. Seth original post is correct. No one would be out protesting any of this if the color was reversed. I hope the right person is prosecuted. There is more to this story than any of us knows at this point and the press is already prosecuting this for the courts so why do we even need the courts. I’m out

Brian: how do you know this? Are you on the damn dept? NO!! You only know what the the f’ing press wants to print. Good god man.

Brian: LOL

Brian: NEWS FLASH!!!! The press knows all the facts!! He is guilty!! Hang him!! LOl

Democratus Reno: If we aren’t supposed to question the police if we aren’t on the department, who looks out for sloppy police work and misconduct? Ultimately, all government agencies are accountable to the people.

Brian: Your reading into my words what you want to here. I never said not to investigate or check it. I said how do you know they didn’t call the DA immediately? Were you there? NO Are you a member of the Dept? NO you are going on what the press tells you and that is letting someone lead your conclusions based on nothing other than the press’s word. I can also guarantee you this guy will get an anal bleaching by the IAB. These are the police police and they hate police more than a Rodney King. LOL

Democratus Reno: If a DA declared a shooting justified based on what they knew a few minutes later, then it’s the DA’s fault, not the cops’, but there’s still a systematic problem and we won’t find out where it is if we don’t press the issue.

Brian: How about giving people time? Better yet since you are so concerned you should drive your butt down there and join those morons in the streets threatening violence and riots if they don’t get justice now!! LOL I’m done…..no more replies. Have a safe trip to FLorida. LOL

Democratus Reno: Time for what? We had witnesses coming forward saying they had been pressured to change their stories or they had never been contacted and they hadn’t done much to gather evidence at the scene. That killed whatever benefit of the doubt they had. If they weren’t actually investigating, giving them more time just means the evidence gets colder.

Democratus Reno: Also, it is a big deal when unarmed young white men get shot. Remember Eric Shaw?

Jill: The legal system isn’t telling the press their full info or the directions their investigation stratagey. They don’t want any more interruptions in doing their job. We don’t need to know all of it. I am in Fl by St. Pete and orlando now and you think it is bad there. It is a tragedy. What about leos that get shot in the line of duty protecting us to keep us safe. The constitution says the every man, woman and child are innocent until PROVEN guilty. All the press are actualy hurting the investegation. I am not a racial person, not even close but regardless of anything we need to let every do their job and stay out of it. There are murder sorties ever news cast like it isn’t a something rare at all form her. Just sayin.

Zenor: dont stop now!! keep going Brian Boggess!! RAPE THIS GUY!!! You are cracking my shit up!!

Jill: Agreed

Democratus Reno: So when would the proper time to start questioning the police be?

Jill: Who says they havent already. none of us were there so it is all hear say. Don’t they have the right to a fair trial/investigation. They don’t want to make any arresteds until they know there is sufficent evidence to insure the guilty does not go free since you can only prosecute some one once for a crime.

Zenor: how about this…

Zenor: someone was shot. the family is pissed. police are looking into it. End of story

Democratus Reno: Except for the part where the family had every reason to believe the police weren’t looking into until after they stirred up a media storm and are now understandably not confident in the police department to put handling the case properly above ass-covering. What would it take for it to be legitimate to question the police department’s conduct?

Seth: But that is not what this has evolved into.

Jill: Nobody has the right to cast judgment on either side as no one knows the full facts of the case.

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